He imparts knowledge in every sentence, with a passion for a profession he didn’t stumble upon casually, but rather after slightly altering his path from the Faculty of Medicine at the University of La Laguna. Conrado Rodríguez-Maffiotte Martín (Santa Cruz de Tenerife, 1957) was on track to become a surgeon and ended up among skulls, becoming one of the most authoritative voices in the field of anthropology. Thus begins a lengthy interview with the director of the Museum of Nature and Man (MUNA).
What is a surgeon doing at the head of a museum?
That adventure is a bit long to tell… My father was a professor of History of Medicine at the Faculty of Medicine of the University of La Laguna. When I finished my degree in ’82, he guided my doctoral thesis, which we did on the discontinuous or skeletal variations in the skull. He got along very well with Luis Diego Cuscoy [one of the most important local researchers in Canarian archaeology] and we used the collection of aboriginal pieces from the Archaeological Museum to work on this topic. The close relationship he maintained with Rafael González Antón, who succeeded Mr. Luis upon his retirement, expanded the collaboration until one day Mr. Rafael asked me, “Wouldn’t you be interested in participating as a physical anthropologist or paleontologist in the museum?” Gosh, that caught my attention! That’s where it all began. By ’87 I was in, by ’89 I secured a conservatorship, and in 1993 the Canary Institute of Bioanthropology was created, which is when I took over the directorship. I have given you an abbreviated overview of a period spanning more than four decades.
Do you regret setting aside the scalpel?
No [pauses briefly]. My work at the center has always been closely related to the pathology and forensic aspects of physical anthropology. This year we are coordinating the 21st course in Forensic Anthropology and Heritage for the State’s Security Forces… This is an endless field where you discover things every day.
“Here you have the advantage that no matter how much damage you do to a mummy, it’s not going to complain. It’s dead. However, a lack of care can destroy a unique specimen.”
Do mummies speak?
Mummies and bones… Guerrazi used to say that even ashes speak if we know how to question them. We must not forget that anthropology and pathology applied to past populations use the same basis as we use today to analyze a 21st-century society. This has specific connotations because the patient will never talk to you, and therefore, the researcher must know how to interpret those silences.
Do they get sick?
Once they are mummies? [smiles]. They have to be in special environmental conditions and must adapt to them; that is, the preservation protocol for a Guanche mummy is not the same as for an Egyptian, Chilean, or Peruvian one. At MUNA, for a close example, we replicate the ideal environment to protect those remains. Furthermore, preventive work must be done to anticipate bacteria attacks, especially fungi, and maintain a constant temperature in the exhibition area: those seen in Greenland must be at -8°C while Egyptian ones must acclimate to the 40°C reached outside. Fluctuations are bad, and the relative humidity should be low (30, 40, or 50%)… Yes, a mummy can get sick if not provided with proper care. Insect presence can also become a serious problem.
The other day I heard that the scent of a mummy can influence many variables in a research.
I saw it… On CNN, wasn’t it?
Well, actually it was on a newswire.
It is true that mummies have a characteristic smell, but you can’t rely too much on it to determine if it’s from Egypt, Canary Islands, or Chile. It’s better to conduct pollen analyses, which indicate the burial place, or diet analyses to know what was eaten in each region. The smell can be indicative but not definitive. I remember when we held the Athanatos exhibition here about seven years ago, mummies from all over the world came with different aromas: the most intense, undoubtedly, were those from Egypt because they are anthropogenic mummies, made by humans, not natural. Substances used there can create multiple scents. I wouldn’t rely much on cataloging an Aleutian or Egyptian mummification by the smell they emit.
“Let’s not forget that Artificial Intelligence is something managed by humans. They are the ones inputting all the existing data or data that may exist into a database to feed the monster”
Do you think Artificial Intelligence will be able to correctly handle that historical legacy?
AI is useful for everything, but you have to know how to use it. Let’s not forget that Artificial Intelligence is something managed by humans. They are the ones inputting all the existing data or data that may exist into a database to feed the monster [laughs]. From there, you’ll have an excellent reconstruction of a fact, but if no one provides the information, the technological advancements won’t be of much use…
How do you imagine a museum in 20 years?
A museum must meet certain minimum criteria, otherwise it would be a gallery or something else… The first has to do with cataloging. In a museum space, everything must be perfectly organized, inventoried, and in the exact place to be used when needed. Research is also a fundamental element because it enables you to create exhibitions or replace one piece with another. Education, of course, is another essential factor when talking about a museum. If such a center ceases to be an educational and university complement, it ceases to be a museum. It will be something else, an amusement park, or whatever its management decides it to be. Conservation, finally, is another parameter that must be part of a venue’s design. Technology is great, but it risks becoming obsolete quickly. What you consider groundbreaking today may be worthless or, much worse, has broken within two years. Technological advances that enter a museum should be a temporary value to better understand a painting, a sculpture, or a mummy, not something colossal that turns this space into an amusement park. In fact, in current museology, world-renowned experts recommend not excessively technologizing a museum.
“If a museum stops being a complement to educational centers and the university, it ceases to be a museum… It will be something else, an amusement park or whatever its management decides.”
Is a museum required to provoke and educate the visitor?
Yes, absolutely yes. When you go to a museum, you should leave with more questions than when you entered. However, you must have the tools at your fingertips to reach the degree of knowledge you lack, a bonus that each visitor can supplement as best they know when they return home. The web should not only provide basic information but offer rigorous workshops and articles to help clarify those doubts. Once at the Imperial War Museum in London, which by the way, since we defeated Nelson they have the defeat of July 25 well hidden next to a small column, I ended up in the shop buying a bunch of books to try and resolve many of the curiosities I had during the visit.
But isn’t that a cut and paste?
It’s a cut and paste, of course, it’s a cut and paste… I won’t mention names, but AI is used daily in schools and in jobs where a high amount of information is necessary. I also say that knowing there is such a powerful tool so close, it would be ridiculous not to use it. What problem do I see with Artificial Intelligence? It cannot replace human intelligence, even though it was created by us. The use of so many mobiles, tablets, and electronic gadgets by minors is something that repels me because I understand that they have lost the ability to read on paper, which is fundamental to me. I am one of those strange types who still likes to write with a fountain pen. All that has been lost. We’ve even lost the ability to talk to the person we share a coffee with at the same table. The other day, without going further, there were two young people exchanging messages via mobile when the distance between them was no more than a meter. Unbelievable!
How is the day-to-day coexistence between mummifications?
There are many myths, more than reasonable in my opinion… It is not very different from how an investigation is carried out in a pharmaceutical laboratory. Here you have the advantage that no matter how much damage you do to a mummy, she is not going to complain [smiles]. She’s dead. That doesn’t mean you can’t do a lot of damage if you don’t know how to take samples: a lack of care can destroy a unique specimen. I understand that for a person who is not interested in the subject, all this may seem somewhat gruesome, but it is more fun than it seems.
Have you had time to imagine how life will be away from this museum?
I have no choice but to imagine it because by law it will be my turn… By age, I should have retired more than a year and a half ago, but fortunately, you are allowed to stay until you are 70 years old. This has the advantage that when I get tired, I leave… My intention, God willing, is to continue doing things and researching after I leave. It won’t be at this pace, but I know I don’t want to stop. Sport will be fundamental in my life because at these ages you have to do some physical activity even if it’s walking, not walking like those old men that walk. I mean walk well… Clint Eastwood has a phrase that suits me well, something like, “what you have to do when you get to an age is not let the old man in”. I’m not going to let the old man in because I still feel useful and young.
Will you go home without the National Archaeological Museum (MAN) returning the Guanche mummy to where it belongs?
That war is not new and doesn’t only affect Madrid. Since the ’90s, we have been working on recovering everything that is outside and should be in our museum. This is a very complex task where you don’t always have the law on your side, as happened with the Necochea mummies, where Argentine justice agreed with us: human remains must be returned to their communities of origin. The Complutense University of Madrid, through an agreement, also returned those under its custody to us. I understand that the National Archaeological Museum (MAN) should have archaeological material, although I do not like to call archaeological material human remains from all Spanish regions. Mummies are a delicate matter because they are people, bones are too, but the viewer is still looking at a bone, not a mummy that was a person who walked, ate, died… There is nothing scientific here. No matter what they might say about conservation and environmental issues, today a museum like the National Archaeological Museum or MUNA has the necessary technical and human resources to preserve such a piece, which by the way is one of the best preserved in the world. What doesn’t seem very appropriate is that they have it stored in a warehouse based on a recommendation that states they cannot be publicly exhibited. I haven’t been told face to face, but I believe the management at MAN fears that by returning the Guanche mummy to its place of origin, it would set a precedent, prompting other communities to begin requesting the return of the Lady of Baza and the Lady of Elche. Will I ever see the Guanche mummy at MUNA? I hope so, but certainly, we have to tread carefully because if you mess up, you lose your opportunity forever. We are currently in a waiting game to see what happens with the circular sent to the museums under the Ministry of Culture not to exhibit human remains. MAN is justified in displaying an Egyptian mummy in one of its rooms since it is bandaged, but I insist that I do not feel consoled by the fact that the Canary mummy is in a basement. I don’t know if this one had been wrapped in animal skins like the ones we’ve got; they would have kept it in the exhibition hall, but they certainly have it hidden. Why do they want it in storage? I’m not in the minds of those who have to make that decision, especially because we are experiencing a tumultuous political scene where I believe deciding whether to return a mummy to its place of origin matters little or not at all.
“I understand that for a person not interested in the subject, all this may seem gruesome, but it’s more fun than it seems.”
Does this extreme contact with death cause you to see life from a different perspective?
It makes you see life in a different way because you know firsthand that in the end, we’re all going to get there… But what you learn most is how infinitesimal we are in the universe. Life expectancy is only a statistical factor that means nothing when death knocks on your door… The life expectancy of a Guanche was, incidentally, between 31 and 36 years, while a Spaniard today [this country is one of the longest-lived] is situated in the eighties, specifically 88 in the case of women and 85 – 86 for men. When you compare that with the nearly 14 billion years the universe has, what value do we humans have: we are very transient, but the time we’re here, short or long, we must make the most of it. As Mercedes Sosa said, “the dry death should not find you without having done enough”.
Are you all a kind of CSI of history?
Without a doubt [laughs]… All the methodologies used by the police or a forensic scientist for studying human remains are what we use. They employ it in a judicial context, while we take advantage of those resources in a heritage scenario. Sometimes those two contexts [judicial and heritage] intersect, for example, in an air disaster like the one at Los Rodeos in 1977. When the remains are absolutely overwhelmed or completely destroyed, the presence of an anthropologist is crucial. In the March 11 train attacks, the work done by these experts was key: forming a team with anthropologists, geneticists, forensic doctors, psychologists, radiologists… is not easy.
In fact, one of your colleagues was key to uncovering some of the details of the ‘Bretón case’.
Yes, Paco Etxeberría. He is a forensic doctor, but he has a great passion for forensic anthropology. He is deeply involved in the disappearances during the Civil War and matters of Historical Memory. Miguel Botella in Granada, José Antonio Sánchez, who has already retired, was in Madrid, and other experts have played a very relevant role in police cases of forensic anthropology recorded in Spain.
